Pie.GravityWell.xYzLondon knife crime vs viral content about London crime
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https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c693c781-835e-4449-a9d8-1478bfab534c.png
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c693c781-835e-4449-a9d8-1478bfab534c.png
Fear mongering right wing media machine goes brrrrrr
Same thing in Germany with crime in general constantly dropping while anti immigration sentiment keeps rising under the excuse of “violent immigrants”
US too, crime has been dropping for decades but we apparently need a Gestapo force to go after criminal gangs
Well someone has to bring the crime back up
Those privately owned prisons won’t fill themselves.
The curious thing about US crime statistics is that we only count crimes against the state. We never count crimes committed by the state.
I would argue that US Crime has been sharply on the rise, from within the organs of the government itself (and its corporate affiliates).
The definition of “crime” is pretty much controlled by a small number of people and it ain’t a crime if there’s no law against it.
Always remember that the mass murder of Jews and Roma in NAZI Germany wasn’t a crime because it was all legal. Similarly, Slavery wasn’t a crime in most of the World, and even today in many countries, such as the US some forms of it (for example using prisioners as forced labour) aren’t a crime.
We’ve been indoctrinated into in everyday speech conflate Legality with Morality (as its very useful for those who control lawmaking for the riff-raff to unthinkingly shun those deemed law-breakers and side with law-enforcers), so IMHO it’s a good idea to, once in a while, remind oneself that Laws are made by Humans, not Gods, and the reasons for Humans to make Laws as they are, are messy and the results themselves are often bad and easy to selectivelly interpret and abuse, something especially bad in ages like the one we live in when widespread political corruption is pretty much standard.
True but I didn’t want to get into the nitty gritty and just comment on the conservative “crime in the streets!!” fantasy
Rightwingers keep trying to make Cali look like a crime ridden cesspool and Texas the peak of law and order, but crime statics between the two are marginal. They tend to shutdown whenever I cite sources on that.
texas has more murders, shooting on average. and they believe it to be the opposite.
which they arnt, because actual gangs will shoot you on sight. thats why the FOR-PROFIT prisons and gop is freaking out that thier CASH cow is drying up.
It worked in United States. It’s the classic moral panic https://youtu.be/pwQqOdfc7pw
A common trope of this kind of “Press” in the UK was (no idea if still is, as I left Britain some years ago) the “many generations of the same family living on benefits (i.e social security)”, which was part to greater far-right picture they very purposefully painted of poor people as leeches.
Somebody actual went and researched it and found out that in the whole of Britain - home to over 40 million people - there was a grand total of 3 families with 3 generations living on benefits, 4 if you count the massive stippend the Royal family gets from the British state as “benefits”, though they’re filthy rich and don’t actually need it.
A common schitck of the far-right propaganda to selects a handful of people who are assholes and happen to be part of a social group said far-right wishes to slander and point them out as if they’re representative of whole group. They do this for everybody, not just immigrants and it’s not just them doing it: for example, notice how news coverage of demonstrations from some News organisations tends to focus of the handful of people destroying things rather than on the majority who are behaving peacefully, something incredibly common in pretty much the whole of the UK press, even the supposedly serious one.
Because I don’t understand correlation vs causation, I can only conclude that the monetization of X caused a steep decline in knife violence
Probably because all the criminals are too busy posting about scary Muslim knife attacks on X.
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These two graphs cover different time periods. It looks like the monetization of X lines up with that hump of sharply increased knife crime at the end there.
I think that it’s true specifically because you don’t understand correlation vs causation
/s
I’m gonna keep ringing this bell until people sit down and reread chicken little
The foxes want you to believe the sky is falling.
They want you panicked, so they can control you.
Their intent is to devour you.
The correct reaction is to not listen to them.
And while we’re at it, un-ban all the silly things that they used your baseless hysteria as a purported justification for banning.
Knives for everybody! All shapes and sizes.
If everybody has a knife, then nobody has one.
Instead of getting smacked on the butt, newborn babies should be handed a switchblade so they can protect themselves.
Agreed.
Also, if everybody has a knife, the cartel that slaps those impossible-to-tear plastic collars over the necks of bottles of salad dressing and soy sauce will no longer hold any power over us.
Nothing on X is organically viral now. Elon is the ultimate powertripping admin, and he will shape his website however he wants
Ftfy
Is this supposed to highlight that he’s white, highlight that there’s non-white admins who powertrip more, or be a play on using irrelevant data to muddy the waters of critical thought?
I just want to be sure what subtext you’re using.
No I was saying he’s a Nazi.
why not just say he’s a nazi then? why equate being white to being a nazi? so weird
I believe the reference was not to the word ‘white’, though to the term ‘white power’, which has been established as a phrase of those who ascribe to the idea of white supremacy.
Seems to me he was calling him a nazi.
Hope this clears things.
Yes. Here I see my mistake, let me try again.
Ftfy
I hadn’t put the white and power together in my mind like that. Neat, thanks.
It’s a pun. Not a subtext.
_White power_tripping
Knife crime in sharp decline
Stop, stop, you’ll scare a conservative Londoner with language like that!
It’s generally not even Londoners re-posting crime “news” about the capital (we live there, so we know) it’s more certain people from rural areas who neither live, work or visit London.
Those certain people are either the ones who have a chip on their shoulder about how London is a success despite not catering exclusively to white native born people, or people who just got sucked into an alternate reality where they read so much crime news that everyone in London must get stabbed once a year.
There is also a healthy dosage of conflating per square mile and per capita crime
It’s probably russian bots and Americans that have never left the tristate area.
Be careful using the word “conservative” if you’re discussing UK politics - it’s literally the name of a (mainstream) political party.
I’d like to think that the person from feddit.uk knows that!
I obviously don’t know you’re background either but FYI I’d say that this sentence does just refer to a generally conservative person. In the UK we don’t really refer to individuals by their party name directly like Republican/Democrat in the US etc. Someone who literally votes Conservative you might refer to as a tory, though there’s not really parallels to other political parties.
Sorry if this not news to you!
Regardless of the whole big c / little c argument I’d still be hard pressed to find one person that was alarmed with falling crime figures…
I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the poster meant a “knee-jerky, xenophobic, Reform / BNP / UKIP / English Alliance etc. voting Londoner” because, yeah, that headline would be counter to their narrative.
I think that’s exactly what they meant, and that they would be troubled by a headline that challenges their world view.
Almost. The thing with the conservative mindset (referring to right wing authoritarianism generally, not Tories in particular) is that they are motivated by fear of others. Sorry for causing confusion, I’m not from here originally and I don’t even make sense back home, sometimes.
The graph illustrates a divergence between real knife crime and fears about knife crime on X (where the blame is seemingly laid on monetisation of posts).
The dot I’m connecting mentally here is that preferential treatment is being given to fear-based posting about crime and minorities, which is exactly what you would do as a billionaire who wants to buy a mass media platform. A tale as old as semaphore, that.
So, the idea of a right wing Londoner getting spooked by suspiciously boosted, factually misleading scare content promoted by an even richer, more right wing bastard kind of makes me laugh. They’re driving each other crazier and crazier all the time, and ultimately it’s not all that funny.
😭🔑m🎱‼️
These statistics have people on the edge!
2/3 of murders in Minneapolis MN were committed my ICE agents this year. They say they want to make us safer.
I have frequently said, I have never been helped or protected by law enforcement. I have needed their help, and received shrugs. Overall, the world is a lot safer than government would have you believe, and they only want to protect capital anyway.
minneapolis has serve thier political purpose of the right: drum up support for a gop GOVERNER campaign, that dint work. so they are largely pulling out, and distracting from the epstein files, which largely dint work.
And compare that to the rise of right wing ownership of media.
And compare that to the leftist handing social media over to the right uncontested.
What do you mean?
My best guess is they mean that leftists tend to prefer abandoning mainstream social media platforms than fighting against the right on them. Hence Facebook, twitter etc turning full right wing while we find refuge in places like here.
The right owns those platforms and most of the leftists are still there regardless.
Regardless if they own them. It’s still where the most amount of social relevance is. Some lefties are there and numbers and influence is growing but that’s momentum dies quick without increasing numbers and engagement. And trust me they’re working hard to crush me voices. I just saw one say they’re getting flagged at airports because they run a travel blog and they say fuck ICE.
The left cannot win anything going forward unless they beat the fuck out of the reich on these platforms. There is no protest that can succeed if we don’t have a good presence on the platforms that people get their opinions from.
They might own it, but they can’t just flip a switch saying censor lefties and allow their ideas to spread. We’d all know and it would wildly turn a lot of people away from them. They are forced to leave the gates open. Instead they convince us to self censor. Reality is we all should be there now, building groups and putting their ideas against the ropes. It’s a numbers game. Play the game. Give them no area to spread bullshit uncontested. We need to be creating hubs and roads so that when the next election comes and they ramp up their presence that it’s met with an equal force.
Do you honestly think that they don’t boost right-wing stuff? They can and they do. I’ll give you an example. After Trump got elected and Zuckerberg was genuflecting at him, I suddenly started seeing Trump shit in my Facebook feed. This is even with an adblocker and FBP, which normally lets me block sponsored shit. Another example: At X, Musk has ideas like “white genocide” baked into the platform’s AI chatbot. You can’t reform a system like that. You have to abandon it.
Right. The left is only going to win by…arguing with CHUDs on X? What an obvious waste of time. Yes, organize, but you don’t need to organize at the Nazi bar. In fact, organizing at the Nazi bar is pretty clearly a bad idea. They control the platform. They have your personal and private data. What do you think that they’re going to do if you start winning? Come on.
Also, if “we should all be there now”, why are you here? Why aren’t you arguing with Nazis on X? Sounds like you’ve got a lot of work to do!
What’s mildly infuriating is that the viral content graph doesn’t show the years where knife crime actually peaked.
Yeah these graphs are frustrating. The knife one also has a Y axis starting at 600 along with the numbers being a “rolling 12 month average” of stabbings, whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean.
Rolling averages are used to smooth-out graphs with high-frequency noise. Since measuring the stabbings per month only gives you some 50 stabbings on average, maybe one month you’d get 30 and the next month 70 due to stochastic reasons, and so to make the graph smoother and more readable and long-term trends more visible, you can do a rolling average.
As for the “starting in 600”, that’s common practice and it’s good as long as the axes are properly labelled, which they are.
Sources: X
Ok so lies, gotcha.
Hey Brits.
USA hostage here.
You are presently rolling your eyes at this manufactured outrage, hoping it will hurry up and just pass by already so people can get on with their lives, right?
We’ve been there. It’s not going to stop, it’s going to get worse. And worse.
This fascist, racist infection will turn into an even worse cancer over there because you have more than one nation around you with different looking and different sounding people who are going to start feeling more and more displacement from climate and geopolitics and who be seeking safety and survival.
You already have a surveillance state that beats us, you are losing rights and freedoms every day. You had the strongest alliances in the world, but between the Brexit fiasco and now the US’s oligarchs sabotaging NATO, you are losing your strongest source of capital, which was unity and international community strength. If Ukraine falls, you will have Russia on your doorstep controlling your gas and food.
You need to do what we failed to do early enough, which is reinforce local and domestic communities and see the threat for what it is, an active force of destruction that works in slow-motion and attacks you in your weak points, your forums and subreddits and your social media, your television stations and your news agencies.
You are in so much danger of escalating chaos it’s going to make the USA look sane and balanced.
France is starting to get it. I hope more countries do.
Same as here in the states. Rural people happily eat up that the city is unsafe, and they happily believe they are so much smarter than everyone else for not living in the city and being murdered every other day.
Knives have been getting duller? :P
Man, I have this debate quite often - usually about “the situation in Sweeden”. Any links available to the article, so I can share with my concerned friends?
Chiming in from Sweden, the situation here was getting very bad (relatively to how it used to be here, and how it is in the rest of the Nordics). When my dad was a kid, shootings would be national news, when I was a kid, bombings would be national news. Nowadays they are both so frequent that it barely makes the dailies.
Things have slowly started getting better again however, even if it’s slow going.
Here’s a link to a visualization tool from our national broadcaster. Keep in mind, all of Sweden is just some 10 million people.
https://www.svt.se/datajournalistik/skjutningar-i-sverige-ar-for-ar/
Sweden discourages integration, so there you are.
How do you mean?
Unfortunately, this is only about hospitalisations. Crimes involving knives/sharp objects have been going steady, with a slight increase last years, from what I can see, mostly focused around rapes :(
Source (uk parliament, confirming numbers about hospitalisations): https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04304/SN04304.pdf
yeah it s obvious hospital admission isnt the full picture.
Heh, “sharp” decline.
I always find it interesting when you’re only provided a portion of the data in a chart, as this shows “hospital Admissions” and not total incidents involving a knife.
If you look at other reports on the issue it seems like incidents involving a knife are still high (and don’t follow the trend from the graph) even though hospital Admissions and deaths are down - Source.
That could mean that reporting is up while crime is down, or could mean that less incidents are ending violently, but it’s not as clear a picture as the initial graph indicates.
Note: the source is for the UK in general, but other London based reports show similar. I chose that article because they seem fairly trustworthy.
Isn’t the outcome the important thing? Like, clearly fewer people are dying/being hospitalized by knife attacks, isn’t that ultimately the relevant metric?
Well, that means knife crime is more successful. Rarely are you supposed to even use the knife. And the victim needing a hospital after is also a failure. Therefore if knife crime remains high and hospitalizations are lowered that means the criminals have more success with it and it becomes are attractive form of crime.
The point of my post is that it is “a metric”. The original post was showing that knife “crimes” were going down over a period of time while rhetoric about knife crimes were up.
However, knife crimes may not be down based on other metrics. So yes, while it’s good that less people are being hospitalized, that doesn’t mean the argument being made in the OP is valid.
I’m also not trying to take sides, just noticing that the graph on knife attacks wasn’t telling the whole story. It’s very possible that the increased rhetoric on knife attacks leads to more people reporting even though crime is down. Generally there has been a trend in the world to over report crime, typically done to help push legislation or political parties.
eNgAgEmEnt
rimshot
You could make this graph about pretty much any crime-news coverage over the last 40 years. “If It Bleeds Then It Leads” has become western media orthodoxy.
Same is true in America. If immigration is up and immigrants cause crime, why is crime down?
Almost as if it’s willful delusion to push a narrative. A group of people covering their eyes and ears and lying through their teeth to radicalize people to their sick cause.
I wonder what happened around 2018ish
I think the drop is 2020 and then it never recovered actually?
I mean why was there a big surge around that time? Not referring to the later drop.
The surge starts around 2016, could be political instability following David Cameron leaving/Brexit, smartphones being common enough that muggings increase, changes in policies due to Sadiq Khan being elected, children who grew up during the recession growing old enough to join gangs, or a number of other things
This reminds me of a Republican politician interviewed on TV being told that crime rates were down, and him replying “but I don’t FEEL safe”.
Reality doesn’t matter.
This is how crime reporting in the US works too. There isn’t a connection really between crime rates and news reporting, the news media broadly choose to focus on certain types of crimes because they serve the interests of their owners and/or are popular with their audiences. There’s decades of polling showing Americans largely have never had any idea what the actual risks are of crime.
Does the drop in knife crime just happen to coincide with when BJ stopped being mayor?
Yeah I guess there would be a “Sharp” decline now wouldn’t it
the isnt even a correlation in that graph. e.g. if you look that crime peak in 2023, there is absolutely no correlating peak or drop in the twitter posts.
I think that’s the point. Like they don’t care about the actual stats and just say whatever they want for clicks
I’m sure a huge part of this is actually racism as this post suggests but these two graphs aren’t really equivalent. The first graph is only assault with sharp objects, the second one covers posts about crime in general.
And it could be presented as NHS being underfunded.
So less crime after brexit?
Less crime before Brexit, too. It appears crime peaked during Brexit. Definitely something to think about.
That sounds about right for most places on earth.
Same thing here. Crime is down but reporting is up.
does those Twitter posts contain “Memes” or what